Tagged: Interstitial cystitis
- PamParticipantDecember 10, 2014 at 5:39 amPost count: 52
Right berberine is in Golden Seal but also other herbs like barberry exudes berberine and this is the plant derivative that I used in my berberine treatment for SIBO-C; I got it from Thorne Research. I’ve read Golden Seal was good for the bladder though!
Interesting comment about the mag citrate because I do think it makes me more gassy and definitely thirsty!
Also I think its okay to have “some” gas out the bowel area just not out the mouth. LOL
PamftderParticipantDecember 10, 2014 at 6:20 amPost count: 210
THANKS Norm! And thanks Pam. I take magnesium oxide, ONLY because my doc is very wary of vitamin supplements for people with IC because we are so sensitive to them and oxide is not absorbed but gets the job done. I think it may be building up in my system and causing the gas, but if I don’t take it I slow down alot so this is really hard. I must be mag deficient so I am thinking of taking magnesium glycinate that is more absorbable to build up my store of mag and see if then I won’t need the oxide anymore. I really hope things re-balance and I can get off the mag wagon because I hate it!
Pam, I am still burping a very little bit but after anything: water or food. Is this what you mean about gas out the mouth? I don’t burp a lot and I dont have heartburn or reflux or stomach pain. Do you think the burping will subside? My doc says it is from the SF 722 (antifungal), but I don’t believe her LOL.
Pam what is your dosage of the berberine tx for SIBO-C and are you worried the product you are using might kill the good guys too? How do you deside dosage and duration of use? Is there more I can read on this? Thanks!PamParticipantDecember 10, 2014 at 4:20 pmPost count: 52
No, with SIBO breath test they measure the gas you exhale, hydrogen or methane or a combination of the two. SIBO-C people can have a combination or may be predominately methane. You are not supposed to be exhaling any of this. A little gas in the stomach and burping is different than what I am talking about above. The SIBO breath test involves fasting overnite and then the next morning they give you a small concentrated dose of sugar and then measure your breath every 20 minutes for about 3 hours. If you are expelling this gas and at a certain level they are pinning you down for SIBO because this is what comes out of the small intestine…Norm could explain this better or you could just Google the sibo breath test.
I took the berberine because it is a potent herbal antibiotic and thought to be as effective at pharmaceuticals. I got off of it because didn’t think I needed it anymore. All these antibiotics kill the good and the bad. But, with the small intestine, you really are not supposed to have any bacteria in the small intestine or at least only trace amounts. With SIBO you have an overgrowth of bacteria period. You take berberine for several months stepping up dose and then stepping down. It is good for constipation SIBO people.
For the berberine that I took from Thorne Research I would take one per day, then in 3 days one in the am, one in pm and then so on to where I was taking 4 per day. Initially, it made me very nauseated and then than resolved as I got use to it…die off is the reaction I was getting?
PamPamParticipantDecember 10, 2014 at 6:14 pmPost count: 52
Forgot to answer the rest of your question. You can get more information about herbal antibiotics for SIBO at Siboinfo.com
And, interested in what products you are using for magnesium??
PamftderParticipantDecember 10, 2014 at 6:53 pmPost count: 210
Thanks Pam. My doctor has her own herbal concoction LOL so unless I stop treating with her I guess I will have to wait.
I use the mag my doc recommended TwinLab Magnesium oxide. But as I said, this is because it only draws water into the colon. I would like to pursue magnesium glyconate and have some in my cupboard but need to wait till bladder feels really good to add in a new supplement. It would be nice if my mag levels in my body were such that I did not need supplementation. The question with gut disorders is “is supplementation always the way, when the reasons why one has become nutrient deficient have not been fully addressed”? I don’t want to throw supplements at things when my body wont absorb them, over-reacts to them etc… But at some point the body hopefully can be coaxed.
Pam can you point me to l. glutamine research? I have heard of this. My doc does NOT use bone broth as she has seen it to perpetuate the pain cycle in IC patients so I doubt she would use L.glutamine either but would love to read about it! Tx!AndreaSParticipantDecember 11, 2014 at 7:31 amPost count: 52
Bloating, flatulence and cramping have been reported as side effects of mag citrate. Not sure what the mechanism is. Also, staying hydrated is important.
Actually, that’s what I expected since Mg is often taken to moisture the stool. I doubt that this would only make good bacteria flourish!?ftderParticipantDecember 11, 2014 at 5:43 pmPost count: 210
Are you suggesting that the mag supplement is exacerbating the problem? It seems much lesser of evils in the constipation/supplement choices (as compared with the fiber laxitives). My holistic doc allows the mag. Of course I want to get off it, but if I don’t use it my bowels really dont move very well. I am hoping as the microbes shift this will improve?49barefootParticipantDecember 12, 2014 at 3:25 amPost count: 35
Magnesium oxide isn’t a good form for the body to absorb magnesium — it mostly passes through, and can cause diarrhea easily. Chelated Mg is much better. But Mg is also easily absorbed through the skin, so try soaking Epsom salt baths!AndreaSParticipantDecember 12, 2014 at 9:09 amPost count: 52
Are you suggesting that the mag supplement is exacerbating the problem?
Nope, I just wanted to say that I’d not be surprised if it does. Keep goin’ if it works for you! 🙂ftderParticipantDecember 15, 2014 at 3:01 pmPost count: 210
Thanks 49Barefoot and Andrea!
I hope to transition to a more absorbable form of magnesium soon and to get my mag stores up so that I dont need to supplement. Something that is very poorly understood by anyone that does not have Interstitial Cystitis, is that most of us are extremely sensitive to supplements as they aggrevate inflammation. So more absorbable forms of mag could cause bladder pain. I am improving overall so I will try various supplements here and there and see how it goes.
As I updated over in the FTD user updates, my athletes foot I have had for years has resolved (still working on some stubborn toenail) and the skin on my face is smoother and less oily! Progress!!ftderParticipantDecember 15, 2014 at 4:54 pmPost count: 210
Can anyone with a history of bladder symptoms that is following this diet recommend vitamin supplements that they tollerate? My doc only uses Juice Plus for vitamins because it is from whole foods and people with bladder sx seem to tolerate it. The problem is it has fiber and makes me constipated which tells me it is the wrong supp for me.PamParticipantDecember 15, 2014 at 5:07 pmPost count: 52
A couple of things.
1. I am unable to figure out how to ask Norm a direct question, could you help me out with how you are doing that?
2. I was wondering if we could get Norm to Bullet Point Interstitial Cystitis on his forum topics so it is easier to find the topic?
3. Also, I am going back and forth with the constipation issues too, even with drinking lots of water. According to Norms book, Lignins is a safe fiber that indicates no fermentation. I would sure like to try a supplement form of this and not sure what would be okay. I also have read in the food sources that Flax is a good source of Lignins but am confused as to whether I should be taking flax due to all the other diets I have read about. There is a supplement for lignin and it uses wild cherries as the primary source. Would love to try something different than the magnesium supplements. Any takes on this?
PamftderParticipantDecember 15, 2014 at 5:24 pmPost count: 210
I am not asking Norm any direct questions (although one time did send a question to the Institute)
Hopefully Norm will see your request to ID IC differently. Do you want it listed not underneath auto-immune anymore, but more visible in the Forum Topic area? Just trying to understand.
We are having constipation I think because we have such a loss of good bacteria and that just takes a long time to rebuild. We are asking fiber (through supps) or magnesium (drawing water into the colon) do do the work of moving the stools that the good robust bacteria used to do when we were kids. This is a tall order. So until if and when we have better flora balance this is going to be an issue. Here is a quote from the constipation section of gutsense.org. A very interesting website. Unfortunately his supplement called Hydro-C for constipation, even tho he claims it is gentle would probably not be safe for people with IC because of history of severe leaky gut and inflammation and immuno-compromised body.
AS for the lignans I did not see it in the book so I will go back and look. If it is so fantastic and not causing GI issues, I wonder why Norm did not mention it in the constipation section of the forum, or in his blog post on constipation? Did I miss this? My doctor does not use flax (are you thinking flax oil, or flax seed??) until people are very healed because she sees a big increase in bladder pain using flax. I have seen her use it after a while so maybe you would tollerate it? It seems flax oil would not have the FP that flax seed would have???
“Why do antibiotics cause constipation?
Antibiotics are broad-spectrum antibacterial medicines expressly used to kill pathogenic bacteria throughout the body. With few exceptions, antibiotics can’t differentiate good bacteria from bad, so all get killed, including the bacteria in the large intestine that give stools their amorphous properties — slightly formed, light, uniform in color, soft, and moist.
Once the bacteria population is reduced, or it is missing altogether, stools become dry and hard (type 1 on BSF scale) because there is nothing left to form them and to retain moisture. I describe the role of intestinal flora on this page: Restoring Intestinal Flora.
The pathologies related to missing bacteria — constipation, low immunity, the deficiency of biotin and vitamin K, mucosal inflammation — are further exacerbated by medical doctors, particularly in the United States, who recommend using indigestible fiber in order to bulk up the stools instead of restoring the population of innate bacteria killed by antibiotics.”PamParticipantDecember 15, 2014 at 5:26 pmPost count: 52
This is the list of supplements I take:
1. Quercetin with Bromelain by Now – good for IC and the gut
2. N-A-G by Jarrow – helps with intestinal function and supports joints
3. L-Glutamine – helps restore intestinal lining
4. Bone-up by Jarrow – Contains a multiple mineral supplement including D3 – people with SIBO and interstitial cystitis are considered low in proper mineral digestion
5. B-Complex #6 by Thorne Research – people with IC and SIBO difficulties with proper absorption of B vitamins. BTW, vitamin B considered a no no on IC diet due to potential flares so I am no doubt have vitamin B depletion because of the stupid IC diet recommedations. I have no problem with this supplement.
6. B.P.P. – By Thorne Research – Digestive enzymes supplement that I used a lot initially and now only once and a while.
7. Berberine – by Thorne Research – good for constipation people helps increase gut motility. I used this initially as a SIBO antibiotic. May start using again.
8. Allicin – by Allimed – also good for constipation and as a herbal antibiotic. Very expensive as allicin is an extract from garlic. Allicin cannot be obtained from commercially sold garlic because it has been damaged from food iradiation process required by US food and drug administration, only local farmers market sell quality garlic. PS this supplement is REALLY expensive and overpriced in my opinion but it does the job.
Summary — a lot of different supplements for a reason. Once you think you can tolerate, mix up in a veggies/fruit drink and enjoy throughout the day.
6. PS seem to be tolerating my simple probiotic but may swith to natren. Natren also can be used as an enima for constipation people I may try that to populate the lower intestine with good bacteria.
PamftderParticipantDecember 15, 2014 at 5:27 pmPost count: 210
Sorry, also here is the link to the whole constipation section. His understanding of the physiology of digestion is interesting and helpful, even if some of his dietary guidelines to not include Norm’s newer contributions to our understanding of digestion.
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