Tagged: Interstitial cystitis
- ftderParticipantNovember 21, 2014 at 2:53 amPost count: 210
Pam what do you make of that study about the cleansing waves and urination? Is it that the body is trying to rid itself of bad bacteria through cleansing waves and that because there is bad bacteria, there is more inflammation and urinary frequency is the result?PamParticipantNovember 21, 2014 at 3:50 pmPost count: 52
I just think the cleansing wave is out of whack esp. for IC folks and the research supports the findings. Also, I believe that SIBO is an over growth of bacteria, both good and bad. Right? So the problem is we have too much bacteria in the small intestine, there really should not be much bacteria in there at all. I do believe the constipation causes the big back up for me as you know constipation can basically cause bacteria from the large intestine to backflow (lack of better term) into the small intestine, hence to much bacteria in the small intestine. IBS-C SIBO as you know is much harder to treat than IBS-D. Our or my problem is to figure out why we have SIBO to begin with and one of those problems could have initiated from food poisoning, hormones, surgery, overuse of antibiotics or there could be a physical problem. Basically the cleansing wave is messed up for some reason. Yikes too much here, sorry to ramble!
Its odd I never really noticed bloating so much with my IC until I went after SIBO aggressively and then it came on. What I did notice is that I was unable to lose weight and kept on gaining weight. I am actually a small person and have been relatively fit all my life. After I addressed SIBO my gut shrunk and like you I can now fit into my old clothes.
Research on obesity is now also indicating that SIBO may be the cause for people unable to lose weight and people that get their guts stapled to control eating are also not addressing the real problem. Just more interesting research!
So I think that I will probably always be addressing the diet issue for the rest of my life and sure overtime as my gut heals I may be able to introduce a small amount of the offenders but it will take time. This is where Norm’s book is soo helpful over all the zillions of other diets I have been on, it address low fermentation foods so we starve the bacteria. I think one thing you mentioned that was important was the biofilm of bacteria. This biofilm can make treatment even more difficult. When I initially went thru treatment there was no doubt that I would experience die offs that made me feel quite nauseated. For me, the probiotics made me even sicker. This is odd too because with my IC groups, many would complain that probiotics made them feel sick…again, too much of a good thing?
PamPamParticipantNovember 21, 2014 at 3:56 pmPost count: 52
Sounds like a good diet plan! Yes on and off I can get cold hands and feet but that typically happens really when winter weather is coming on.ftderParticipantNovember 23, 2014 at 5:08 pmPost count: 210
Jaeme, are there other breads you are tollerating? Norm writes about baguette and I am wondering if you have tried that in small amounts? I still am trying to understand why a scone has a low FP, but “cooked” flour, as in maybe added to gravy for example, would not be good. Something in the baking? I really don’t understand this!
Also I found an english muffin with white flour and a bit of buttermilk (which is supposed to be LOW lactose. It has a GI of about 100, high net carbs and very low fiber. It came out great in the FP calculator. Would that be ok to try?
Or what about home made buiscuits with white wheat flour? Aren’t those exactly like a scone?I am still confused about all this! Thanks!!ftderParticipantNovember 23, 2014 at 5:19 pmPost count: 210
Pam, thanks for all your thoughts on this. I hate hearing that IBS-C SIBO is so much harder to treat! Ugh. But it is true. Bifido bacteria seems to help my BMs, as do the smoothie salads (pureeing the food) that you recommended, at least for 1 meal. It sucks to have to be so strickt, but given I have had SIBO and malabsorbtion for most of my adult life, in order to regain all the nutrients I have lost, I figure it is going to take many years.
One of the things about probiotics causing pain with IC, is that they may contain vitamin C in some of the preparations and this can cause inflammation for ICers. Also, with increased intestinal permeability, fermented probiotic foods and supplements can be extremely painful, this is because the microbes cross the intestinal barrier and leak into the lymphatic system which increases inflammation. The immune system over-reacts to these microbes. This is why it is necessary to use the right kind of probiotics, in micro- doses at first. My holistic doctor is very knowledgeable about how to use probiotics with IC. I think you might consider getting a consult with her practice.
As for impaired intestinal motility this is often the case. And low stomach acid. My doctor looks at this holistically as well, trying to heal all the organ systems to restore balance and improve digestion.
If there are biofilms, a product such as SF 722 can be useful as it is known to dissolve/break up biofilms and revert candida from the fungal form back to its normal yeast form. But I personally would never use it without consulting with my doctor as she uses it in combinations with other things to make it safer for IC patients.ftderParticipantNovember 23, 2014 at 5:21 pmPost count: 210
ALso, because many with IC have very dry mucosal tissue and sluggish digestion, ironically she does NOT support the use of digestive enzymes with IC. She says it can create a lot more problems and pain. I really don’t know why this is, but she has found it to be the case….ftderParticipantNovember 24, 2014 at 4:52 amPost count: 210
Pam or Jaeme
I had been doing very well and follwing the diet very closely. I am just now finishing the two weeks. For some reason, today I ham having a lot of gas and heartburn. Not the methane kind of gas I used to get tho. Not sure what to make of it. Could I have eaten too much protien at one of my meals? Also, I ate some cabbage yesterday that had been cold for a little while, but I thought cold veggies are ok? Did anyone have a little up and down with the gas and burping in the first month? Thanks for reading!!ftderParticipantNovember 24, 2014 at 5:40 pmPost count: 210
Pam I think you already did this, but wanted to be sure you switched the base of your sludge from coconut milk to almond milk as coconut so strongly correlated with IC pain?PamParticipantNovember 24, 2014 at 6:50 pmPost count: 52
I have not looked at the IC diet for a long, long time so just focusing on the SIBO diets and really just looking at a lot of what Norm has done. Anyway, I took out the coconut because from what I have deduced from Norm’s and other lit. is that it is a medium fermentation. I was using coconut in everything including my homemade cereals. So now I just have unsweetened Almond Milk.
Also, on the probiotics I just reread that Norm had written that the following probiotics strains can cause gas, under certain circumstances “Lactobacillus brevis, Lactobacillus casei, Streptocococcus thermophilus…”p 68, Fast Track Digestion IBS My old probiotic that I could not tolerate contained the casei bacteria so that may be why it was making me feel nauseated.
Norm says use enteric coated probiotics but not sure I am buying into that one. I have done a lot of research on probiotics. Actually, I use to break the powdered capsules open in my mouth, swish and then swallow as the mouth contains so many nasty bacteria : )
On the stomach issues you are having, as I healed, it was definitely one step back and two steps forward so unless you are consistently having issues??? Also, were you ever tested for SIBO? And, I am taking another form of supplement that helps the gut for indigestion etc… a product called Peppermint Gels by NOW in the enteric coated pill is peppermint, ginger and fennel…all good for the gut.ftderParticipantNovember 24, 2014 at 9:18 pmPost count: 210
THANKS Pam, I am not so far consistently having issues so will keep going, thanks!
As for the cococut and the IC diet, I should be more clear. I have never followed the “low acid IC Diet” as I believe, like you, it is rubbish, as does my doctor. My IC doctor is not a medical doctor, as in a urologist, but actually a holistic doctor that has also never used the western “IC Diet”. Her information on coconut is based on her clinical experience treating people with IC and has deduced that they do not respond well to this food and should not have it in their diet.
You might have a look at the Natren line of probiotics as they do get past the stomach acids. They are top of the line. My doc has used them with great success treating IC. They are single strain and not the ones that Norm mentioned that are concerning. I only use the capsule form and open the capsule, not the powder as I think it has vitamin C which not great for IC.
Interesting and good that your bladder tollerate’s the pepperment!! My doctor assigns properties to things like ginger and pepperment and they are usually too strong and she does not use them in her practice. Not that they are not effective, it is just that there can be a cost, micra-flora and tissue health wise, to any herb used medicinally because they have energetic properties in addition to what they do in a western sense. But I will be thrilled to see how you get on using the pepperment. If you are having bladder sx I would personally would question the peppermint. it would only be something I would add if I had low bladder sx as a baseline. If you still had leaky gut then the immune system could overreact to peppermint. Just a thought!ftderParticipantNovember 30, 2014 at 4:54 amPost count: 210
Hi Pam and Jaeme! I posted over at the constipation thread too. I am really struggling with constipation. It is near the end of my menstrual cycle so maybe that is part of the reason, my hormones have some kind of effect on my elimination. Anyway, very frustrated as the bloating and gas are creeping back in and I am being very carefull with the diet. I guess I have eaten a little less salads the past few days so I will increase those. I don’t know if the jasmine rice is supposed to help or hurt? I was eating 20 cashews per day which I know helps move the bowels but I was trying to lower my FP to get the gas down a bit more so I cut back on nuts and cut out the fruit and here I am, totally constipated and bloating is back. This is really tough. Any insights welcome!JaemeParticipantNovember 30, 2014 at 7:08 pmPost count: 348
I posted at the constipation thread, but will stress here that I ate about a cup of greens (not iceburg lettuce) at breakfast (cooked in my eggs or whirled in smoothie), 2-3 cups at lunch as a salad plus other veggies, and another 1-2 cups at night as a side salad with dinner. I was also eating nuts and low fp fruit (1/8 cup nuts as a snack, doesn’t look like much). I drank at least 3 quarts of water a day.ftderParticipantDecember 1, 2014 at 8:48 pmPost count: 210
Jaeme, THANKS that is very helpful. Things are moving well so I will keep going. I wonder if I can keep in things like small amounts of nuts/berries when I still have small amount of gas and burping? Would it be better to have no symptoms before I introduce these foods again? Or do you think as long as my symptoms are low, I can keep in some nuts, etc…It would be nice to have these things still in, of course. I guess I am asking did you go VERY low FP until you had a perfect baseline, or did you just follow the diet and notice a gradual decrease in symptoms? Thanks for your thoughts…ftderParticipantDecember 3, 2014 at 2:46 pmPost count: 210
Jaeme, I wanted to post about ketosis and your experience. I think I am not digesting the rice well yet, and need to take it back but do NOT want to go into ketosis. I figured I need about 35-40g of carbs per day to stay OUT of ketosis. It seems your plunge into ketosis also may have contributed to your sleep issues (did you come accross these blog discusions below in your research?) Do you think just taking out the rice for a week or two is going to mess things up? I welcome your thoughts.PamParticipantDecember 3, 2014 at 3:42 pmPost count: 52
I thought it was really interesting that you brought up ketosis.. I had never heard of this but the research indicates it is quite possible to occur on low carb diets. I am sure I am in ketosis. I guess it can happen within a couple days of the diet. Not really sure why this is a health issue because the way I understand your body changes from burning glucose to fats, seems to me that that is what the body is supposed to do.
I guess you can buy ketosis strips that will tell you if your in ketosis, I might go get those.
Please enlighten me on this one.
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